Podcast Ep014: Diversity in Film and TV, with Marcus Ryder MBE (Recorded at Make It Reel)

Izzy: So I’m very, very excited to invite Marcus Ryder up. So Marcus is the CEO of the Film & TV Charity. He was previously the head of external consultancies at the Sir Lenny Henry Centre for Media Diversity, which was set up to explore and increase diversity across the industry. So, very, very excited and happy to have you here, Marcus. Can we have a warm welcome?

Marcus: Thank you. Okay, where should I put these notes? Hold on, I’ll put them here. Hello, everybody. Just so I know who I’m speaking to, how many of you are involved in creating television programmes? Cool. Film. Okay, is there anybody who’s not involved in film or television at all? Okay. Okay, fine. Still welcome to be here. 

Okay, fine. So it’s strange. I’ve got my. My little speech ready, and then just as I was coming in, I was asked, how did I get into edi? How do I get into diversity stuff? And I started talking about ancient history, literally ancient history. And I thought, I’ll start with that instead. Okay, so. Because this actually shows why this is all important, okay? Western democracy and the origins of Western theatre both come from the same place, ancient Athens. Now, that is not a coincidence. What you have is that theatre came first. There was a massive festival, religious festival, in which different plays and different theatre productions were made in Athens. And in that religious festival, they would then decide which play was the best play. 

Okay, everybody knows this, or not everybody, but a lot of people know this. And if you go to Athens, which some of you might have had the privilege to do, you can actually see whether that first theatre amphitheatre actually. Actually was. It’s incredible. So what do you have when you have theatre? What you have when you have theatre is you have people telling their narrative. And so what you have in that religious ceremony, in that religious festival rather, is you have a competition of which narrative is the best. Can you see where I’m going with this, folks? That’s all democracy is. Democracy is people explaining their narrative how they see the world, and other people deciding which narrative is the best. Once you have theatre, once you have a vehicle from which people can actually tell their narrative, can tell their stories, and other people can vote on or decide which narrative suits them best. That is democracy. 

You cannot have theatre without eventually leading to democracy. You cannot have a creative narrative without it eventually leading to democracy. Which is why when theatre first emerged in ancient Athens, it was not a democracy, it was an oligarchy. It was called the Tyrant’s Rule. It is no coincidence that when there are dictators, one of the first things they do is they want to limit the narratives that people can tell. All right? Now, I say this to say that if you are scriptwriters, if you’re involved in making television, if you’re involved in making film, if you’re involved in making any form of creative narrative in which other people can understand and see the world through somebody else’s eyes, understand their lives, understand what their neighbor’s going through. This is not just a creative whimsy. What you are doing and why this is important and why I give up my Sunday to come here, right, is because we are the foundation of democracy. 

We are the foundation of society. Without us, you literally have dictatorship. And I really stress that because I really want you all to know how important you are. Okay, so today I want to talk about black people achieving leadership positions, people from different backgrounds, Asian people achieving leadership positions, disabled people, people from all different walks of life. Now, I wrote a book called Access All Areas, where we said the original title was called Majority, because once you actually break it down, nearly all of us, 98% of us, come from what is called diverse backgrounds. And by definition, that 2% must be diverse as well, because they wouldn’t be. 

So let me just break down the stats really quickly. The stats are that if you look at non white women, non disabled people not living in, in London, right? It comes. To make sure I get this right, 69, 69% of the population, right, Are quote, unquote, diverse, right? If you add the LGBTQ, women, people of colour, disabled, etc. Once you add class to that, you actually get 96.9. I remember this because that was the. If anybody listens to Choice FM where I used to work, that was 96.9, but 96.9% of the population. And that was the last census, so that was 2011. 

I haven’t updated these stats for 2021, but. But the chances are that the quote, unquote, people who aren’t considered diverse, which is straight white men living in, around London, et cetera, et cetera, will be even less than 3%. And they have to tell their stories as well. So when I talk about diversity and the need for representation, we should realise that we’re talking about all of us, okay? And we need to make sure that we can climb that ladder so that we can actually get our stories told. Now, a year ago, I was appointed the CEO of the film and TV charity. I’m going to tell you a little bit about that, because anybody working in film and television and cinema, this charity is here for You. So this is the other main reason why I’ve given up my Sunday to make sure that you know about this. This is really important. We’ve been going 100 years and we do three things. We look after your physical, your financial and your mental well being. 

According to the stats, people working in film and television and cinema. Our mental health is considerably worse, not just marginally, but considerably worse than the population as a whole. We do a survey every two years called the Looking Glass Survey. The latest one will be published in March. But the headlines of this year is that over a third of people working in film and television in the year preceding taking the survey, over a third had suicidal ideations. 40% reported having. 42% reported having a serious mental health condition over those 12 months preceding that. These are serious things. They lead to marriage breaks, they lead to alcoholism, they lead to all manner of terrible consequences. The charity is there for you. 

We offer six free therapy sessions. We have a support line, we have tools in which to set up productions in a more mentally healthy way. Go onto our website, filmtvcharity.org and you can cheque it out. We are there for you and the therapy is not just there for you. With regards to work related things, if you need relationship counselling, if you need grief counselling, whatever you need. We also recognise that loneliness is a major driver of mental ill health. And so we have wonderful, even if I say so myself, we have wonderful space in Soho. 

And it’s free for you, it’s for you. It’s not for me. Even though I work there, it’s for you. So anytime, go onto the website, book a space, you can be there for free and you can just work. And it’s a world of difference from just always working in your bedroom to actually just leave in your house having some physical dist separation from. From your bedroom to where you can actually work. Right? Free coffee. To be honest with you, it’s not the best coffee in the world, right? But free coffee, come down, come and work, right? There’s also other. The hot chocolate’s nicer. Okay, the hot chocolate, there we go. Right, I should try. I’ve never tried the hot chocolate. I’ve been there over a year. I’ve never tried the hot chocolate. 

All right, so yes, so come down, use the free space. We do financial aid, right? So financial hardship last year when there was yakta strikes on lots of people who were on productions that were put on hold, all of a sudden they had trouble because of financial precarity. All of a sudden they couldn’t pay their mortgage, they couldn’t pay their rent, they couldn’t pay their light bills, they couldn’t put food on their table because the contract which they thought they had was put on hold indefinitely. So close to a million pounds went out of our door on hardship grants. Now, the hardship grants aren’t massive, they’re at a limit of £750, but they’re emergency stop gaps which we then help you restructure your debts, put you to the right people to restructure your debts. Because if you don’t restructure your debt, then we could double the number. 

It could be £1,500, could be 3,000. And if your debt’s not restructured, then you’re just in the same problems that you were before. So it’s only £750. But as I said, and that shows you how many people must have accessed our money last year if close to a million went out of our door. Right? So we’re there for you when it comes to financial hardship. Okay? So please go onto our website, cheque out our services, or we are there for the scriptwriters, we are there for anybody. We are there for the TV directors, We’re there for anybody working in film, television and cinema. It’s been going 100 years, but to be honest with you, lots of people didn’t know about us. We do things like raw film performance and stuff like that. 

So when the King and Queen finally go to the cinema, you’ll see me at Gladiator 2, which is a very weird experience watching Gladiator 2 and people’s heads being chopped off with the king sitting two seats away from me, which is weird. But, yes, please cheque it out, because it’s for you. Those are the two things that I really wanted to get across today, that you are really important, like seriously important for the whole of society to work. And the second thing is that to make sure and to value you, there is a charity which is dedicated to you. Okay? Those are the two things. My job’s done. Now I’ll give you a little speech. All right? All right. 

So I’m going to start off by saying the six words, which can be career ending. Okay, I am an angry black man. As a black man working in the creative sector in London, I have been allowed to be funny. I can be thoughtful, I can be kind, I can be sad. More recently, I can even talk about mental health, thanks to people like David Harewood. And I can even be depressed. But anger is the last taboo now. You may well ask, why am I angry? And what has anger got to do with working in film and tv? I am angry because as a black man, and more precisely as somebody who is a CEO in Britain, I understand that I am in a country and at a time when I know everything, or a lot, maybe not everything, but a lot is stacked against me. 

I work in the creative sector. I worked at the BBC for 24 years. The last eight years as a senior executive in news. I’ve worked in senior positions in both China and Malaysia. In 2020, I launched the Selene Henry Centre for Media Diversity, the first centre of its kind to produce academic work and offer independent advice and consultancy to media organisations. On EDI. In 2021, I was appointed the chair of RADA, the UK’s most prestigious drama school. And as I just said, just a year ago, I was appointed CEO of the film and TV charity, an organisation dedicated to your welfare. So I know a thing or two about black people in leadership. I’ve been leading high profile teams producing high profile content from Panoramas to award winning RTS and Bafta programmes for over 30 years. But I also know about anger. 

An anger which in many ways has built up not despite my success, but because of my success. My anger is not about the last 12 months or anything that has happened recently. Not about Trump’s election. The truth be told, it is bigger than just television itself or any political event. Although Brexit makes me a bit angry. Still, I am angry at the inequity that far too many of us face. I am angry because it should not be this hard being black in a leadership position. Let me give you some stats so you can understand where my anger is coming from. According to a recent report by the said business school at the University of Oxford, black led employers make up just 0.1% of of UK small and medium sized businesses. 0.1% of small and medium sized businesses. And for those that might not be able to picture what 0.1% means, 0.1% translates to roughly 200 or so black led medium sized firms in the whole of the UK. Right? 

So in the whole of the UK there’s only roughly 200 black LED medium sized companies. Alright, so you might say, well, what is a medium sized company, small or medium sized company. So the definition of a medium sized company in the UK, one that employs just over 20 people or has a turnover of over 10 million. Right now my charity, the charity which I’m the CEO of, does not have a turnover. 10 million is closer to about 3.5. But it definitely employs over 20 people. It’s not that hard when you think about it for an organisation to employ. 

And the fact there’s only 20. Think about that for a second. I’m not just talking about TV and film here, I’m talking about every type of company in the whole of the UK and there’s only 200 of us. The UK has a population of over 60 million people and just 200 individuals are black people running medium sized businesses. Okay, so here’s another stat that makes ME VEX Between 2009 and 2019, only roughly 40 black founders received venture capital funding in the UK, which equates to around 0.24% of all VC funds to founders over that 10 year period. So black people make up roughly 6% of the population and they received 0.24%. 

And here is one last statistic that makes me angry. Black owned businesses have the worst business outcomes as measured in median financial turnover compared to any other racial group in Britain. So just in case you missed it, let me just run through it again. Black companies make up just 0.1% of medium sized companies. There are just 200 of us, we do not get access to funding and our chances of success are lower than any other racial group. Let’s talk about film and tv. I can literally count the number of successful black led companies and I struggle to think how many of them fit the description of a mid sized company. 

Having worked in television, I can tell you one hand, two hands of the black led companies who will get commissions from Paramount, Channel 5, BBC, Netflix, etc. Now the truth is I’ve been angry for years, hadn’t done my research before to know the specific statistics that I’ve just quoted to you, but I’ve lived them and I felt them. I’ve worked on an unlevel playing field for years. I’m sure many of you, depending on your racial background, depending on your disability, depending on your gender, will feel the same and there will be similar stats. I was just talking to somebody before I came. While I was boring them about ancient history, I was also just talking to them about women in stem. 

So this comes in different guises. So day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, the anger builds up. Working twice as hard to get half as far is not just tiring. The unfairness of it creates anger and ironically for me, it builds up the higher you go up the greasy pole because you’re hitting your head against a glass ceiling and you’re getting A better overview of the systemic issues facing us. I also know that talking about anger for me is the surest way to be pigeonholed. Not to go any higher in my career and be dismissed as the angry black man. 

Our emotions and authenticity are heavily regulated. It is heavily regulated for all marginalised people who are the victims of systemic oppression. Angry black men are thought to be irrational and scary. Remember when Obama was meant to be angry? Giving a terrorist fist bump to Michelle Obama after one of the presidential talks against Hillary Clinton? People remember that. No, yeah, I mean, Obama angry, like seriously, he’s like. He was like, no drama Obama in the end, right? Anyway, so it’s really easy to be pigeonholed and shunned by polite society at the same time as I’m angry. An angry middle class white man has righteous indignation. 

His anger is usually justified and understood. Women’s emotions are just as equally heavily regulated. Women have, excuse my language, there are no children in the room. Women have resting bitch face, while the same men who are justified in their anger do not have resting bisphage. They have a moody face. That a sign that they are being thoughtful. It is a sign of intelligence. Now, I’m not suggesting that I should be able to go into the office tomorrow and start inappropriately or appropriately even shouting at people. That’s just bullying. 

Nor is it very pleasant to work with men or women who constantly look moody. However, if you deny people the full range of their emotional experience, from tears to happiness, from thoughtfulness to anger expressed in a constructive way, I stress you are denying them the full range of tools they need to be successful in life and you are denying them their full range of emotions to express their humanity. Who are the scriptwriters in the room? You need to be able to access those emotions and you can’t just access them at will when you’re at your keyboard and then somehow neatly just shut them off again straight away. You need to be able to be one with your emotions. 

And if society is causing you to actually shut down your emotions, shut down a large part of your humanity, you cannot put that humanity on the page. You will be a worse scriptwriter. Same in all the other types of art. Acknowledging our humanity is true creativity. When we are denied our humanity, when we can express how we feel in a healthy way, we end up internalising it and we end up being in pain with. With disastrous consequences. Now, I’ve told you the stats of the film and TV charity, so I won’t go through them again. 

But what is interesting is that People from marginalised backgrounds, nearly all of them, or all of us, I should say, have worse mental health results compared to their equivalent, either male or white or majority counterparts. Now, I didn’t really quite realise this until Covid, how I really felt, because it wasn’t until Covid, where I didn’t go into the office that something lifted off me, lifted off my shoulders. Not going into the office, not mixing with colleagues. I didn’t have the microaggressions, I didn’t have the small indignities which I face every single day. But the problem is that avoidance is not a solution, avoidance is not the cure. 

And so the question is, if we are not given the same opportunities, if we’re not going to just run away, if the deck is stacked against us, if we want to express our full range of emotions, if we don’t want to be mentally ill, if we don’t want to have failed marriages and relationships, if we don’t want to kick the cat and shout at our children, how do we survive and how do we thrive? Now, I’ve had some good bosses of all different genders, races, ethnicities, different backgrounds, different same with colleagues. Some have given me breaks, some have not. Some have held me back when I shouldn’t have been held back, some have given me promotions when I didn’t deserve them, Some are more racially aware, some are more gender aware than others, etc. Etc. 

I’m grateful for all of those bosses, I’m grateful for all of those colleagues. But for me, and this goes to how you should be networking, hopefully today. For me, the secret of my success, the secret weapon in my armoury and in my journey, is the support of other people of colour. My mum is a fantastic networker. She was the manager of a citizen advice bureau. People know what citizens advice bureaus are. She was the manager of citizen Advice bureau. She was the second ever black woman to manage a citizen advice bureau. And her network was fantastic. It was in Brent and so she was friends with Paul Boateng because he was MP for Brent. She was friends with Ken Livingston just before she retired. Dawn Butler, she got her MBE. Fantastic networker. 

And anytime I asked her, how do you network so well, she would say, I don’t network, I just make friends. And it’s friends which have helped me maintain my sanity. So let me tell you how friends have helped me. My first ever job or the first ever experience I had was I worked for a black film collective called Cheddo. It’s similar in its work. It’s time and Judgement. Menelik Shabazz was the founder of it. Amazing work. And I was 16 at the time. I got there at 16 because a friend said, you should be doing this. And someone else at Cheddar reached out for me, a filmmaker called Dennis Davis. From there, I then went on to work. Years later, I went on to work for Watchdog. 

And that was because I had some black people at the BBC who were my friends and they said it wasn’t nepotism because they weren’t in a position to actually help me. But they did help me and coach me through interviews. And when I felt like giving up because times were hard, it was those same friends who lent support. I then went up to Manchester for a programme called Reportage. I hated Manchester. Everyone else loved it. It was a time when it was meant to be. Is it Manic Mondays? You know, it was all meant to be. Not quite Brit pop, but it was meant to be fantastic, right? As a young black boy, London was the only place I wanted to be, right? London was the entire culture. 

I used to have a story about how I loved R Kelly back in the. In the 90s and no one in Manchester had heard of R Kelly. I can’t tell that same story anymore, right? But the point is, is that there was a black workers group, BBC Black worker group in London, and they literally gave me the oxygen that I needed, so I travelled down. So having that support network, every part of my career, every time when I would have given up, every time I would have absolutely surrendered to the struggles that I was going through. It has always been black people who have been able to lift me up and support me. Now I turn to those because I’m a black man. But I ask you all to turn to the people who will give you support. The industry is too hard. Seriously, it is too hard. It will chew you up and spit you out, right? And it will spit you out after you have ruined your marriage. 

It is. It will spit you out after you have ruined your mental health. It will spit you out in every single way. But the way that you can actually resist that. People think you can resist that by just climbing up the greasy pole higher and higher. Or once I get this commission, everything’s going to be fine, right? But that’s not the way it works. The way it works is that it’s going to be your friends, it’s going to be your colleagues, it’s going to be the people that you meet today who support you. Okay? So I can see the organisers want me to wrap up. So I want you to turn to the person to your left or turn to your right. Turn to the person next to you. Right. 

And make sure that you introduce yourself to them. Then turn to the person, the other person, and introduce yourself to them. Because you will help each other survive. Right? Okay. All right. Hold on. Hold on one second. Hold on, people. Hold on. So I’m sure the speakers you’ve heard today are fantastic. I’m sure you’ve learned a lot. 

But I urge you just one thing, the one thing that you really need is to make sure that you make friends with the very people that you’ve had today. And that will be the most valuable thing that I suspect you will carry forward for the rest of your careers. Thank you.